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Re: I see your points....

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Posted by Clifton on June 15, 2001 at 09:45:00:

In Reply to: Re: I see your points.... posted by HUB on June 15, 2001 at 09:20:06:

: : but I'd bet that the 'rules' of harmony evolved from what sounds good to someone's ears, and not vice-versa. There's a reason those notes outside the key are called 'accidentals' :)

: : I also doubt that a beginning bass player is playing melodic solos through ANY changes. More than likely he's playing chord tones w/focus on root movement, and looking for different yet appropriate passing tones as he moves thru the changes. And El Pariah is correct - this approach WILL often yield interesting melodies! (Sorry 'bout that El Pajaro - but that twist on your name cracked me up! Hope you don't mind) PEACE

: I have no beef with what you are saying, or anything El said, many players have made a fine living off of "if it sounds good, it is good" however, none of them are pro jazzers, and since we are talking about jazz, that premise does not apply, as students of the bass, we should not settle for "gee this sounds good" we should be looking into why it sounds good, the more knowledge you have, the better equiped you are to handle the situation. I would never dog ear-training, as it is the most important aspect of being a musician, but knowing why the progression works and the function of the chords will lead you to total improvisational freedom. obviously you have some education on functional harmony, dont you feel that this has helped you grow as a musician and understand your instrument and the music better?
: On another note, I have several lessons up at covering the topics that we are discussing......a little money where my mouth is if you will....


This is Clifton, I'm the one who asked the question about the "III7 & II7" I think that it is just GREAT that you guys are still discussing this Topic. I am taking all of this in :^) and I will check out the lessons at
Play Sweet & LOW,
: :
: : : : P.S. I DO believe that in order to make an intelligent statement (solo) one should understand the harmony underneath, there is a reason for the progression, not just because it sounds good. Some people are blessed in being able to play over anything without really knowing whats happening in the harmony, while others who arent blessed....well you can tell that they have no idea what is going on, and the pentatonics just arent cutting it. I come from the Jeff Berlin school of thought if you cant tell......

: : : HUB:
: : : Well said. I have been playing POP and R&R for most of my playing years (almost 28 years on the bass... sheesh! Where's my Geritol), and I have been seriously throwing myself at Jazz this last two years as a player. For me, I HAVE to know and understand how the changes work together and why certain things work the way they do. It's not enough (for me) to know that "If I play a solo using the notes from an Fm9 over a Ebmaj7 chord it will be hip". (pardon the very elementary example). Knowing WHY the Fm9 works there frees me from having to memorize a truckload of solutions for a truckload of musical situations I may find myself in. But if I understand the concept, then I am much quicker in applying that concept in any number of situations.
: : : You said it much better than I just did - I am just on a buzz right now because all this music theory I learned years ago, coupled with my chordal studies this last several years is simply blowing my doors down when it comes to soloing on Jazz standards. And when I read what you just said, and then I read something from Lucas Pickford... or I read a CArol Kaye explanation - alot of pieces of the puzzle start to come together. Music is becoming very fun again at my advanced 45 years of age....
: : : paige

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