Posted by HUB on June 17, 2001 at 12:46:40:
In Reply to: Re: O.K. posted by HUB on June 17, 2001 at 12:37:17:
: : : : I have not been playing the Bass very long but, I learn very quickly. I have a question that I hope that someone will be able to answer. I have been playing/studying this Jazz Chord Progression of I-III7-vi-II7, (C-E7-Am7-D7)in the key of 'C.' The notes of this Progression are: (C) "C,G" (E7) "G#,E" (Am7) "A,E" (D7) "F#,D". Now, I know that the I-IV-V are Major, in a Major scale & the ii-iii-vi are minor in a Major scale with the vii chord being diminished. And the III-VI-VII are Major in a minor scale and the i-iv-v are minor in a minor scale with the ii chord being diminished.
: : : : My question is: "Where does the "III7 & II7" come from?"
: : : : In the Major scale the "iii & ii" are minor and in the minor scale the "ii" is diminished and the "III" is Major but, it is Eb!!
: : : : Are there some rules that allow this to occur?
: : : : Am I missing something? :^)
: : : Well it has been a very interesting week....I have recieved quite a few emails the last several days by people who are to afraid to voice their flawed views(as well as call me some amusing names) in a public forum, so I am going to make this very easy to understand.
: : : Q: can Flea play by ear?
: : : A: yes
: : : Q: can Patitucci play by ear?
: : : A: yes
: : : Q: can Patitucci cover a Flea gig?
: : : A: yes
: : : Q: can Flea cover a Patitucci gig?
: : : A: No
: : : now why is that, Flea is a great player for the style he does, but, would be out of his league playing Jazz, Patitucci can cover a Flea gig because he understands the requirements of the gig. By knowing what you are playing, you can step into almost any playing situation and be comfortable. Playing by ear is the fundamental aspect of being a musician, we ALL play by ear,the difference is that some of us understand what it is that we are playing. Before you rebut me on this,(on this forum by the way) heres a challenge, I dare you to name me one pro jazzer who doesn't understand functional harmony or the requirements for playing jazz.
: : HUB,
: : The points are well-taken, but at the same time, jazz is *not* the end-all of music; with all due respect to the form, it's a niche market, both for players *and* musicians.
: : Back in the mid-70's, when Stanley Clarke was in his "School Days" period, his label, Nemperor, would only press something like 10,000 copies of his albums, and they were shocked when there was actually *more* demand than what they'd anticipated!
: : Jazz isn't known for selling a lot of records, unfortunately...
: : The demands of being a jazz player are no secret; it definitely requires a great deal of study. At the same time, though, how many musicians go through a whole college-level curriculum, as opposed to the number who just learn everything along the way? For a lot of musical forms, a technical education isn't a big deal; for example, how many of the old bluesmen were "educated"?
: : If they weren't, does that make them any less musicians?
: : Would Robert Johnson have come up with "Hellhound On My Trail" if he'd had a more formal musical education?
: : Same with Jimi Hendrix and "Purple Haze", or *any* of the groundbreaking music he created?
: : I don't know if it's fair - or even relevant - to compare Flea's and John Patitucci's respective capabilities; those comparisons often deteriorate into "jazz is better" elitism, even when it's not intended.
: : Besides, somehow I don't think Patitucci is going to be sitting in with RHCP anytime soon... ;-)
: : Becoming over-reliant on theory carries some danger in and of itself; a good musician needs to be able to balance both technique *and feel* in developing his/her own distinct style. It's not good to get locked *so* tightly into theory that there's no room for expression, and I've heard a lot of potentially great musicians that have gotten caught in that trap.
: : Music is *not* about technical perfection; it's about letting the music that's inside you *out* into the world where it can soar freely and touch people!
: : *How* you accomplish it is up to you. :-)
: : -Bob
: Hey Bob, very well said, however, the original question was about jazz, not other idioms, so my comments are based on that premise, no it is not fair to compare John and Flea, it was just an example to make my point, I have made a fine living playing music other than jazz, and I love all styles, I am by no means a "jazz snob", nor am I saying you need to go to a college to learn how to play jazz. If you want to play rock, blues whatever, buy some discs and learn it staight from the source, that is the tradition of contemporary music, the demands of the music are not as high as they are in jazz or even classical for that matter. As for as playing from the soul, the more knowledge you have, the MORE you are able to express yourself. What I am trying to get across is that if you learn what it is you are playing, whether it be jazz, ska, A.G. etc...you will be a better musician for whatever your stylistic preference is.
P.S. if you dont like jazz, you really dont have to listen to it, if you want to become the best possible musician that you can, and be able to sit in on almost any type of gig, its best to be armed with the knowledge that comes with intellectual study of music, be it formal education, or private instruction, or just transcribing (for those of you who can)or learning by ear your favorite player, every genre has a different requirement, if you dont want to play jazz, you can disregard this whole drawn out discussion, if you do want to play jazz, be prepared to actually (God forbid) study what it is that you are playing.
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