Posted by Pat Harrington on April 12, 2000 at 18:32:01:
In Reply to: Re: Improvisation posted by Ed on April 12, 2000 at 16:16:26:
: : Sorry if this sounds a little pissier THAN THE OTHER TWO TIMES I TYPED IT IN AND HAD IT DISAPPEAR!!! I just hate server problems...
> Relax, it happens....
: ANYWAY, I think it generally went something like this
: "allegations?" Well , maybe statement more than allegation, but it still went something like jazz bassists who don't play melodically but all scales,
>Ed, I NEVER said that ALL Jazz bassists just play scales and excercises
and try to pass them off as solos. If that's what you think I implied, than
you misunderstood...If that syle of soloing appeals to you or that's what
you think is cool, than so be it...It isn't the style of playing that I appreciate
or admire, however....That is an OPINION, not an allegation. We all have
a different idea of what we think is good, right, moral, legal or illegal, etc.,
ad infinitum. If you think Ornette Coleman's "Song X" is a masterpiece,
that's your opinion, I'm sorry, my opinion differs...
etc. And I basically just wanted to know if you were making that statement cause you heard a jazz record once, or because you listen to a lot of jazz,
Ed, When you asked me, I told you. You know what I do. If you ever
get to L.A., I'd be happy to show you my record collection, it consists
of about 800 recordings with LOTS of Jazz stuff...A lot of stuff you've
probably never heard of as well. I like the esoteric, as well as the mundane.
: "sole reason to play music" You were the one that started talking about "people gotta raise families". All I said was that if yer primary concern was with making money, then you have decided to compromise yer artistic concern.
> Go back and read my last post....As with anything in life, if you're gonna
commit yourself to it as your career, you damn well better enjoy what you
do, or you're finished before you've started, but the term "Starving Artist"
is not something I'd ever avail myself to. Maybe it's cool when you're 22,
but life is too damn short to go through not getting what you want out
of it. Some people may be content living in a one room apartment,
riding the bus everyday, and living hand to mouth...As I get older,
(and I don't know how old you are), being a "Starving Artist" seems
less and less appealing.. I guess the Tibetan monks are ok with what
they do, but it ain't the deal for me.....
: "chip on yer shoulder" Yeah, I know you didn't say anything specifically, it just seemed to be the general tone of yer posts.
Hmmm.....Jeez...(pat scratches head and wonders)......
: "jazz snobs" I don't think snobbery is limited to jazz musicians. Most of the cats I know are pretty open to all kinds of music. Now admittedly my experience of jazz musicians is only MY experience but, living in New York, it's a pretty varied scene, cats from all over the country and all over the world. But they all ended up here, so I get to meet the ones who had the whatever to come to a scene that's pretty wide open.
> That's what I understand...I don't live in The Big Apple, however..
Too crowded and besides, I hate snow....
As an aside, there was a pretty interesting discussion over at jazzcorner.com about a newspaper article chronicaling the problems that the Thelonius Monk Jazz Institute was having after moving from the East coast to LA. So it may be a geographic thing.
> I heard that too, and I'm not surprised.........
. I take what I do very seriously and I do have a problem with somebody who wants me to take them seriously but isn't willing to put in the amount of work to deal with the material at hand.
> Yeah, you're right there...If people are gonna lay down their hard earned
bread to see you play, you had better not have some sluggard drummer,
guitarist, kazooist, whatever, in your band...People like that get booted
out of my band REAL quick.....The older I get, the less bullshit I'm willing
to tolerate...It has no place on the bandstand.....Business is business..
After all...it is "The music BUSINESS"...With more emphasis on the
business part it seems these days.....
But I don't think that's snobbery ya wanna meet a snob talk to some section violinists. Especially if they are also doctors.
> I thought singers were bad!!!!....Yeah, I dig what you're saying...
: "don't need ..yer resume" OK, you just seemed to be voicing yer remarks as if I just stepped off the boat. I generally like to know who I'm talking to, thought you might like to as well.
> Ed, my grandpappy once told me that "If you have to beg for respect,
you probably don't deserve it". Besides, it was YOU who replied to
original posting on this topic, and you questioned my integrity in your
first paragraph.....Oh well....I'm not gonna hold grudges or get myself
in a twist....It ain't no thing......
: "one idiom is more valid or valuable than another" Hmmm. So paintings by Vermeer, Howard Finster, and my niece have the same validity or value (moral, not financial)?
> Ed, you're smarter than to make those kinds of absurd comparisons,
You know what I meant....
Well, maybe. They are all the manifestation of free, creative expression. But do they all show the same depth of understanding of how to communicate meaning and emotion, manipulation of material, and creative focus?
> Again, that's *subjective". Different people see things in different ways.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. And yeah, when my niece draws
a picture for me in preschool and brings it home and gives it to me,
it IS the greatest piece of artwork in the world TO ME!!!!...
Edward, you gotta lighten up man...You can't go through life
arguing with everyone over principles, philosophy and subjective
things such as art and music....What do you want from me????
. No big thang, I just wanted to say that there is just as much reason, if not more, to check out what jazz players are doing
> Ed, I know what they do, as I said, I've played in MANY Jazz groups with
a great deal of success...I get respect as a bassist and as a musician..
How do I know this?....Because I get called back!!!.....
Most of all though, I play because It's FUN!!!....And I guess that's what
it's all about....And this is my last post of this discussion...
Good Luck and Take Care...
Keep the faith..
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